1. Michael Young

    Revolutionaries often end up eaten by their creations, some sooner, some later.

    In the instant the revolution succeeds, accomplishes its goals, they immediately become the most dangerous person in the room.

    What they create persists, they themselves rarely do.

    • D. Bailey

      Hopefully, if you’re referring to Trump as the revolutionary, he will be “eaten up” before the Presidential election.

      • Michael Young

        You made me laugh. Thank you.

        But no, I was just speaking in generalities. “Revolutionary” is a dangerous occupation — often even for the “winners.”

        ( a nod towards Ailes but I don’t know that “muckraker” rises to the level of “revolutionary.”)

  2. Durl

    There’s a strong tie between what caused the rise of Trump and the popularity of Bernie … it’s a country that is tired of the same old thing. We get promises to address the problems that the nation faces, but once we elect someone, they just follow the same old tired directions. They become more focused on getting re-elected than doing what their constituents elected them for.

    National debt? It’s that other party’s fault.
    Immigration reform? It’s that other party’s fault.
    And the list goes on and on …

    Bernie didn’t succeed in getting the nomination because he was up against one of the most powerful political machines seen in this country … the Clintons.

    Trump succeeded in getting the nomination because there were so many candidates who were indistinguishable and Trump took advantage of the lack of message and said all of the things that the voters wanted to hear, whether he believed them or not (and, as is usually the case with politicians, even new ones, he didn’t really believe what he said).

    Something’s gotta give, folks. We need elected officials who will concentrate on real problems, address them with solutions that can be measured and adjusted if they are not working.

    • Bookscrounger

      My very old and very good friend, with all respect, no.

      We do not need elected officials who concentrate on real problems, we need voters who do. The voters need to begin paying attention. Really paying attention, not just to the specific problems, but to the way the world really works.

      And in some way, your post points up the problems, problems I have been tip-toeing around. People say they are tired of the same old thing; what they don’t realize is that we are the same old thing. Politics didn’t start last year. It started 10K years ago with the first civilization, or 10M years ago with the first human-like things. The prehistoric tribal council did not look like Philadelphia 1776, it looked like the tribal council on the TV show Survivor. Even the USA never looked like Philadelphia 1776; after sweltering in the summer heat to generate a couple of remarkably well thought-out documents, as soon as the country was created, the Founders lapsed into ugly, ugly politics.

      We have all experienced small groups and large bureaucracies; politics and unfairness are everywhere.

      You have, of course, also hit on the problem: it’s their fault. I wonder about wisdom a lot; if I have anything to say about it, is that wisdom is realizing that most problems are everyone’s fault. We don’t listen, we don’t pay attention.

      That’s my concern with Trump. He doesn’t listen, he doesn’t pay attention (or at least he doesn’t pay attention to anything except the latest rabble-rousing technique).

      I disagree with conservatives, but I also disagree with liberals. Trump is outside of those, he is something very different.

      Trump and Bernie supporters exemplify the problem; they don’t think holistically. They have lapsed into anger, where dispassionate analysis and cool logic evaporate.

      But there is one thing that people are missing: Trump and Bernie supporters may compare, but Trump and Bernie do not. They disagree over ideology, and that’s fine, that’s what we’re supposed to do. They do not, however, agree about the political process, and about respect for the group, not just their group of supporters or the party groups, but the whole group. Bernie got screwed, but he also got some of what he wanted, and he changed things radically. He played hardball, but he played by the rules of the game and the rules of sportsmanship.

      Even when his opponents did not.

      I do not believe that Trump did, or would. If Trump had gotten the royal shaft as Bernie did, I personally believe he would have continued to run as a third party candidate.

      Again, my comment is not about ideology (and also again, what is Trump’s ideology?!), but wisdom. Bernie has some impracticable ideas, but he also has a wider and wiser view of the whole ball game. He fought, won what he could, licked his wounds (even those in his back; forget the anatomical problems this presents, it’s a metaphor), and lived to fight another day.

      To my mind, Trump has never exhibited anything I would call wisdom. He has never listened to objections, he has never been respectful of critics, particularly when those critics treat him exactly as he treats his opponents. And from what I can see, if Trump can’t get what he wants, he doesn’t care what it does to the Republican party, or the nation. That is why the old hands, the more experienced and wiser Republicans, are keeping him at arm’s length. They have exactly the same concerns.

      The point of this post is that the Trump supporters have things, on the one hand, that they want, and on the other, the things they feel. They feel frustration and anger; but they don’t realize that they do not want more anger, but that’s what Trump is giving them. A president who only expresses what the voters feel, their frustration and anger, will never solve what his supporters want. A ham-fisted president will never get anything done (at least not without declaring marshal law): Congress won’t work him, business won’t work with, international leaders won’t work with.

      Ask yourself: when does getting angry get you what you want, with your spouse, your kids, your co-workers? And if it gets you what you want in the short run, what does it get you in the long run?

      The only time getting angry really works, is when the other person exhibits calm restraint; wisdom, if you will. Trump ain’t got wisdom.

      And for those voters who do not find Trump unwise, wait until January. Trump will either insure the candidate they hate most is president, or he will give us a nation that goes from being the leader of the free world to an economic, political, and military pariah. Again, politics did not start last year. Nor will it end next year. Working to get people everywhere to work together, particularly the large egos around the world, cannot be accomplished by an even larger ego.

      • Durl

        And I respond with a resounding “No” as well.

        I do agree that voters are ill informed and easily swayed with emotion when logic should dictate. That is not likely to change. As you’ve noticed, people don’t feel like they need to learn anything once they are out of school, including how to best cast their vote.

        But, I disagree with the fact that it is all the voters’ fault. If we elect someone who promises “A”, but never even tries to get “A” accomplished, it is NOT the voters fault. It is only their fault if the re-elect the lying a$$hole, which is too often done.

        I don’t like Trump. That said, though, Trump succeeded in getting noticed because he is an opportunist. When the news of Kate Steinle’s death at the hands of an illegal alien hit the news last year, Trump saw the opportunity and shouted “Build the wall!”. He was the only candidate saying that. The others (in BOTH parties) thought it to be a silly notion. He’s wavered on his commitment to do that, as well as almost everything else he’s said needed to be done. I trust him no more than I trust Hillary.

        But the angst he tapped into by that statement is real. Ordinarily, a buffoon like Trump would never have had any support. But he got it, and for that one statement. Immigration reform has been batted back and forth by both parties. Candidates promise to do something. We elect them to do it. And they don’t keep their promises. Sadly, the voters won’t call them on this and bounce them out at the next opportunity. But, the lie is still there. And we continue to allow illegal immigrants to come into the country, we give them benefits, we do NOT deport them when they commit crimes nor lock them up here, and we have a large number of cities that designate themselves as Sanctuary Cities, where the local officials will not cooperate with federal officials to enforce our immigration laws.

        The Republicans ousted Boehner because they thought that he was just an Obama lackey. Rand Paul promised to be different. He has not been. It’s not all his fault, as the deadlock in Congress is so overwhelming that little to nothing gets done. But he is an idiot for knowing that and yet promising to change things.

        People followed Bernie and Trump because they both claimed to be for things that voters want. People want an education without crushing debt. People want to feel safe in their cities. People want a job that will let them properly care for their family. People do not want to bring the immigration crisis that Europe is struggling with onto the shores of the US.

        We have way too many examples of our country being run by people who do not follow the laws of the country, and are not being punished for not following the law. I can give as many examples as anyone needs to prove this point. Not my fault as a voter.

        I despise both Trump and Hillary. I feel like Vizzini (Princess Bride), sitting before Dread Pirate Wesley, looking at the 2 vials, and stating why I can’t choose either one. And in this election, we know that both candidates are vials of iocaine powder.

        • Bookscrounger

          Well said, and you make some very good points.

          But we’re still left with the central problem: the elected officials won’t change until the citizens make them change.

          Yes, the voters are a bunch of bags of emotions. And we can talk about ‘blame’, but that’s the current problem, blame gets into emotions. So we need to talk about change.

          This is my solution, this blog: a) talk to the minority who are willing to talk and reflect, b) try to convince them that the only mechanism we currently have to change everyone else is education, and c) try to convince them that education only rarely changes people because our current educational paradigms are designed to produce followers rather than leaders, and memorizers rather than thinkers.

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